3:55pm JohnSo, What is SHIFT MANIFESTO?
4:21pm Gibranit's a concept that talks about the paradigm shift that is happening in the world more specifically consumer to prosumer.
4:22pm JohnWhich one, there are many all happening at once.
Oh you said it
4:22pm Gibrancorporations losing power to the people and people taking control over their own lives and technology is allowing it to happen governments becoming holacratic in the way they operate a dissolving of the command and control systems that are in place
you're aware of the symbiotic relationship between corporations/governments and people and the people being the larger organism receives the lesser of the benefits from that relationship
4:27pm Johnyes, seems to, I'd need to think on that one.
well look at how the government takes advantage of the people and how the corporations take advantage of the people in the system we live one can't exist without the other because the life of both organisms depend on the other
corporations may have more, benefits and influence on our environment and money money but there are less of them than there are of people it is the proletarian emergence concept from Marxism
that's SHIFT MANIFESTO in short it's my idea of how I think society will move based on things I've observed
really not my idea totally because I haven't been living in a vacuum
4:51pm JohnThere is a feedback look that self regulates so some extent. But if corporations get too much, people will run of cash and the whole system shuts down, this is what's happening now.
At the same time too much in the other direction also self corrects.
Because when the people run out of cash the corporations die!
But normally it oscillates back and forth, between people and the corp/gov.
left and right but basically the sweet spot is in the middle.
4:54pm JohnOne side too far and the whole society will collapse like (USSR) and will eventually restart over and over till it's back in the middle and stable again.
5:39pm GibranI agree with you there has to be a balance but the control should be on the side of the people and not the corporations
6:57pm JohnIt needs to be both
But under GW Bush it's now very lopsided in favor of the Gov and Corp and the people are really f*cked.
But they are so committed to winning at all costs that they didn't take in to account that they just f*cked themselves too in the process.
It's like the left hand and right hand fighting
If one wins they both loose.
7:00pm GibranI was gonna say the unseen hand
7:00pm JohnI don't believe in the unseen hand, but just the hand that most people can not see.
Some of us can clearly see it.
7:11pm GibranI agree that if one wins they both Lose that is zero sum but what about changing the game to use cooperative dynamics or non zero sum game where there is a payout for everyone
7:39pm JohnIt's an ecosystem
wolves eat rabbits with eat plants that are pollinated by bees.
if the wolves over eat rabbits they staved and plants population explode
if the wolves die off your overrun with rabbits, then the plants get wiped out.
if the plants die the bees die, etc...
4:06am Gibranyes but man has the power to change his own ecosystem, change environment, the ecosystem we live in is a man made ecosystem designed by those who want to prey upon others. We are not living in a natural ecosystem and are not in harmony. Look at South Korea and how their society is functioning now, group is more important than the individual,
9:13am JohnYes, man has the power to change his own ecosystem, but we are not in a man made ecosystem designed by those who want to prey upon others.
9:15am JohnThe current system evolved. We have influence that somewhat. Many have tried design new societies, but all fail, because we are not in control.
We can tweak it where and there, but we can not engineer change. We can't out think Evolution/god
Our attempts at change, often lead to totally unpredictable outcomes that are not in any ones control. This is my belief of why we are in this economic mess.